Members and Mods unite for a common cause

Ok - firstly, I just want to say that, after reading through those other posts, its quite embarrassing to think that each and every single one has turned so childish and pathetic - a tit for tat argument that will go around in circles until the gap between the Mods and the Members grows so far apart that we can no longer see eye to eye on anything.

I'd like to say, that I am (majority of the time) very happy with this site. I think most of us are as a lot of us come here nearly daily! BUT there are a few things that need changing, updating etc. Im not going to get into them, but I would like to say that the idea in the other thread (I think it was by Bob) about having a 2 Mod, 18 Member group to draft a new "Rules book" is a great idea. That way we can all feel like we've had our say in there, and come to a compromise about certain rules without feeling the need to attack Mods or Members about past experience or on personal issues.

Lets go forward and be productive rather than stand here and squabble until we're all blue in the face from lack of air or punches thrown.

So... how do we go about forming this group so we can start the process of developing a new rule book for all members? And once that is done, Im assuming it can be handed over to Janis to be approved (and hounded by the Mods until it is approved and the changes to the site are made?).

This is better.

What are some suggestions as to how/who/when/where etc?

I dont really want to come back here to have a thread full of bickering and slander either. So BEHAVE ALL OF YOU! (Bob... Kevin... Articus Maximus... you hear me?) :)

I whole heartedly agree, and i'll try to conduct myself in a manner befitting

amazing, it's like throwing away the articles of confederation and writing the constitution, it's like drafting the declaration of independence, the magna carta, the treaty of versailles

i second the motion

I agree as well. I'd suggest that the members choose the members involved and the Mods nominate two of their number, and that 18 is perhaps too many members if only two Mods are going to be present. We don't want the Mods feeling outnumbered...you'd be lucky to find that many who care enough and are suitable for the debate. Also we can't nominate ourselves obviously.

I'd put forward for the members for consideration;

J Harrison, Abby, Sibyllene, Mo, Micheal D Nalley, Bang bang and The Queen [if they take it seriously and stay all zen]. The judge and, just for balance sake and because he is clearly very smart...Illuminatix.

Not nominated? oh well i guess i'll have to take this one sitting down

I agree with the set rules also

looks like bob didn't wait to get nominated, oh well those are some good suggestions

Kevin I'd have to agree with Bob on this - we cant have only one club represented. I'd suggest it should be 6 or 8 members and 2 mods. Otherwise getting together will create havoc (with time differences and too many people to organise a convenient time).

Should be a mixure of people from different clubs, different ages, different length of time they've been members etc. I wouldn't suggest anyone be in the group that hasn't been a member for at least a little while.

How about we say that each person gets to nominate 3 people by a certain date in a certain thread (NO CHATTING in that thread to make it easier to count names)... then at the end of that time - we can see who has the most votes - anyone can vote, but obviously cant nominate themselves? Hopefully this way a variety of members will be nominated. Also, mods can nominate TWO other mods (not including themselves) but cannot nominate members for the group.

??

Well then i lost, i do actually have a problem about all that

because instead of choosing the right people it'll be one big popularity contest

if we go by popular vote the agitators, people like myself, who complain constantly about different rules and guidelines won't get their say. then we'll just be repeating the same problems over and over again

No. It will be a nomination of who members think would represent them the best. Will that person fight for your rights, have they been a committed P&Q member, are they fair but firm...

This isn't a year 7's prefect nomination. We dont want people just voting for their best friends... And dont forget that these people have to be able to communicate with everyone about potential compromises or what rules are a priority etc.

Maybe we should have one repressentative from each club and a few who aren't even in one

or maybe we should just have a simple committee of smart, dedicated people with no biased opinion o draft a document and post it for the whole site to question and modify

i don't know i'm just saying there are other ways that may be more fair

If the whole site modified it together... how do you think thousands of people could agree on one thing - you saw the threads before! No one can agree on a few little things let alone an entire document.

And there are way too many clubs to nominate one from each... maybe we could do 2 non-club members and one nominated person from each top 6 clubs or something?

Okay but in my opinion no one reprssents me more than myself

all the names that have been listed thus far are basically in the same group and besides someone like myself or other people like me as i have stated before will not get voted in

I realise you want to be in that group (pretty badly)... so are you suggesting you CAN nominate yourself?

That club idea you just stated mo is a good idea.

look i'm saying vote me on or else, or take my ideas or else.

i just want this done and done right with all parties present. i think personally the gripers among all others should be first to be chosen or repressented because they seem to be the ones who lokk most unfavorably on the present situation

i wish that i would be a popular candidate, i wish that i was popular and i did as i was told and everyone liked me. but i will not nominate myself, i think it not wrong but in the wrong hands self nomination can be dangerous

Maybe if we put the mods into one or two groups and each group gave it's repressentative direct instructions

we do the same with the clubs, we put a few clubs in each group and they give their repressentatives instructions

it'd be tough but maybe more rewarding, i don't know i'm just spit balling

That's what i meant britt, i just couldn't find the words

How do we decide that?

Ok, we have 5 active Mods including myself, There are many clubs and many people on this site that feel they want to contribute.

If we have 3 groups, to discuss the matter. 2 Mods in each group except for 1 of the groups they will only have 1 Mod. And split oh I don't know 2 or 3 clubs into each Group, then all the clubs would be apart of this as well as all the active Mods.

Once all is discussed, we come together into 1 big thread and post all the groups outcomes on this sittuation and then add/subtract from the given ideas to make one big list of Rules per-say.

That's my idea on all of this.

Peace, Joe

Way to go italian stallion i wholeheartedly agree, especially on the basis that i suggestedsomething similar.

look britt, i don't know if you hate me, dislike me, etc etc and i don't care. i personally think you're a nice person but from your words i detect something underneath the calm business like exterior

rest assured i care nothing for power, or glory in this case, i just want it done and done right as i previously stated so that one or two years in the future we're not back doing the same song and dance

my goal may be nigh impossible to reach, equality, happiness, fair rules for all, but thinking as i do silence would be guilt

i don't care if i'm obnoxious and disliked, i don't care if i'm labelled an agitator, i don't care if i wreak of discontentment, i want what's right

and i shall fight until the lights go out, i shall fight until i'm thrown out of this site, i shall fight as if al hell should endeavor to shake my will and crush my bones.

i cannot give up and sit idly by, i cannot be likeable, i must be stubborn, i must be hardheaded, and i must stand for what is right

i am sorry if i offended anyone, but i cannot go without myy say put in

I am sorry, maybe i feel i did offend you, but i have to chase my ideals

Man i hope we can come upon a decision

All I see and read, in yet another thread,
is what I read in the other threads.
Certain members pushing ideas, that in my opinion
ultimately would be up to the admin.
certain individuals will not be pleased yet again with the new rule ideas (which by the way are some good ideas) and they will not get what they want in the end, and I shall be naive enough to swing by here and read it again. Stop wasting time on endless "I want and if I don't get it, I shall cry some more threads".

Poetry, people. Writing, reading and growth, is all it is.
Of course I am just a member who has the right to post my opinion, so carry on with the babble and waisting moderators energy on such things.

I will go to another thread where some kid is shoving crayons up his nose for pure entertainment because they are bored, and that thread will sit there until the mods can get away from your "intelligent thread".

In my opinion, that kids bored crayon thread is on the same level as this one.

You are entitled your opinion as i mine

Where is the crayon thread lol... I have completely missed it

This all is getting blown way out of proportion.

It's like war on a poetry site. We have to come to a "peace treaty".

Why does this all matter? Why can't we just write the poetry we love, stop worrying about equality and inequality, and just write. Follow the rules we've been give. It's a poetry site, NOT world war three. :/

Come on.

Crackin on, Well Bob I didn't suggest those people just becuase they are in my club, but because if you look at the list, they are all really smart and more importantly, unlike Donald and the other people you suggested, they actually got involved with the last debate and offered really well thought out ideas and responses...which shows how much they care. I wasn't trying to be unfair, quite the opposite. We need strong individually minded people who are already well aware of the issues at hand and won't be intimidated by other strong people.

As for the new rules you suggested, Personally I am only concerned with the rules that deal with potential problem areas. I like your idea, though it's an old one..of having new forums, that kind of stuff should be looked at I feel, after the more important rules are drawn up and agreed upon. The rest are just obvious...of course sexual predators should be banned etc etc...this I hope amongst adults doesn't need to be discussed, except perhaps the finer points of how to go about establishing exact guilt.

The only area I have issue with in your ideas Bob is the way you suggest people deal with issues they have with other members or Mods. PM's are not used by Moderators when they have a problem with someone. Sometimes they are used but it's not a rule and I am not in favour of it becoming one. If two people, within a public thread find they have issue with each others ideas or conduct, because of the content of the thread, then they should be able to discuss their differences as part of the debate. Otherwise what you are going to have is Moderators constantly telling users who are disagreeing, perhaps strongly in a debate to PM each other and keep their grievances out of discussion. We all know what happens when people want to say something within a thread but are not allowed to....it doesn't go away..I say, without advocating rudeness, let people speak as they wish and moderate them only if they name call or post to upset the other person.

I think the only instance where a PM is suitable, is where a Mod gives a penalty or doesn't want to embarass a member in front of everyone...or when a user wants to discuss with that one Mod, why they got penalty points..and that is all the PM's should be for, aside from personal fun use.

Do we really want everything to be hidden away? It's all going to spill out onto the boards anyway the second people disagree...we'll have PM's posted all over the boards where people wanted to say something but couldn't because of a new rule...

For these reason I think it's a bad call.

Kevin.. You find the insistant need to pick apart everything the mods do. Bob called someone a pimple poet in a joking manner and you resorted to twisting it into an offending manner. This is getting ridiculous.

Why not button up about it, or if you have so many problems with the site and people.. find a new site and piss off? This isn't up for negotiation if the moderators don't want it to be. They're trying to compromise and you refuse to accept any offer they have to give.

Let it go.

Personally, I think this whole darn thing is a bad idea.

Kevin, you know as well as I do that there are certain things discussed between the mods that are private and should remain that way.

This is a poetry site not a political debate....

I do not nor can I at this time agree to a rep. or a panel as you have suggested above.

I whole heartedly feel that it would be a grave mistake.

This is tough. As much as I love Kevin and Bob, they are both so annoyingly stubborn...I can't see having them both, or either of them, as part of this, contributing much of anything rational, reasonable, and fair...More like a game of who is the bigger guy--Oh, they like my idea more than yours. I don't like your idea because it is YOUR idea. Maybe not. They both seem to love and care for this site and its members as much, or more, than anyone.

Sibyllene is fair, genuine, honest, well-spoken, and intelligent. She should obviously be nominated, if she'll be firm enough in her thoughts.

Abby is a genius, although she has her moments of idiocy (don't we all?). She thinks for herself and the manner in which she thinks is pretty damn relatable. She should definitely be nominated.

JHarrison is smart, creative, jocular, and incredibly sane. Everything he writes is worth reading. That's another nomination for ya.

Angelina is a fiery wombat, and as much as I would like to nominate her just so I feel like my opinions are covered, she hasn't been around lately :-\ So skrew that!

Atticus can't write one sentence without grammatical errors, and although he seems moderately brainy and just, he gets too heated and defensive (or offensive).

I haven't seen Gem around much lately, but I'd nominate her. Everyone adores Gem, right? She's sweet and level-headed.

Illuminati spends too much time bragging about himself and how much better his website is than ours...so um, why should we nominate him again?

Micky D is a well-thought-out, wise kinda guy. I'd nominate him, but haven't seen him around.

There are a few members that I'd love to nominate, but I VERY rarely see them on the discussion boards...Gramma Concept, Gary Jurechka, etc.

Elysium, as I remember, was alright...No, not her.

That's all I got for now.

If I'm nominated, that's dandy, I'll try to make valuable contribution(s), but I'm afraid I don't take this "thing" we're doing...very seriously.

In my opinion.. the only people really calm enough and partcipating enough in the forums to really be proper for the nominations would be Britt, Sherry, The above poster, and Bob. They're all active in most threads. That's the shame in all of this.

Wait.. you nominated LUCY? Does she even want anything to do with this? I know her personally.. And she doesnt seem like the type to get involved with anything like this.

Whoa, jeez!

I said that most of Bobs ideas were fine, and I liked the new forum one...how is that disregarding and picking his post apart? All I focussed on was one idea...the only one I disagreed with, OUT OF A WHOLE POST OF IDEAS!..how is that wrong? What discussion do we need on things we agree about? Not alot.

You know what has happened now. I can't even say boo to a ghost, especially not a Moderator one without taking serious flak for it. If anyone else had said to Bob they didn't like the PM system idea....would they have been so roughly responded to? NO. And I always explain myself, you never give me credit for that....people act like I say "bob that sucks" and do not explain why and then offer my ideas....

And I agree with you Sherry, I don't really think much of a select group deciding on the rules, it' not fair and I never said I thought it was cool, especially seeing as any Mods involved are going to be pushing for Mod approved ideas right which they will most likely discuss in the mod forums and then forward...it just seemed out of order to disagree with Bob when he was trying to find another way forward.

Bob and I are both very direct and confrontational, and stubborn, I respect him but I think he talks like a cowboy lecturing a kid whenever he is speaking to me...ha...that made me laugh after I wrote it....

"pick up the gun"....

Prophecies in Kodak, your list isn't a very representative one. What about Sibyllene, Abby and J Harrison...they are calm, intelligent and reasoned.

Out of respect for Mo, I'm not going to post debate points anymore in this thread. Good luck peeps.

But are they active? I see all of them, aside from Abby, very rarely.

Kevin, babe, you are bouncing again....

First you give your list than you agree with me that it is not a good idea, and then you add more times to Kodak's list?

Which do you think? Panel or not? I for one do no tthink it is a good idea.

With that said... We are only seeing a small portion of individuals complain. Not even a handful of memebers think we are out of line as mods.

IF you really want this to go through then I suggest that you get the majority of ALL members together.

Why should we change everything on this site that will affect EVERY member when there is less than 2% of the general population giving us grief.

I do not think that this is a good move....

And Kodak... thanks babe... I am glad that someoen thinks I am being calm instead of over bearing

I don't understand how anyone can be emotionally affected by the discussions that take place in a poetry website with members and friends whom most of us have never met outside the constraints of technology. Maybe I should care more, I don't know.

Actually Kodak, and everyone else, the three that Kev continues to repeat would be incredibly good nominations for this little game we're setting up. They may not participate much on the main boards anymore, but that's only because they are in my club...participating every single day for several hours. My club is pretty awesome, if you're over 18, you should join ;) Haha, but because all 3 are in my club, I'd say that nominating all 3 would not be very comprehensive.

sherry darling, how can we get the majority of PnQ to participate when about half of its members probably have forgotten about this site after signing up? I'm signed up at a million different sites, but I've literally forgotten most of them. How many members are actually active? Alright, take that number, then...how many members are active beyond simply submitting poetry, never really inter-acting with other members? Let's now take that number, how many participate on the discussion boards on a regular basis? Alright, and now with that number, how many are actually willing to speak up? The internet is a very distant world of people...we cannot tap members on the shoulder, say, "Hello, would you like to speak up against the rules on this site? Or perhaps FOR the rules?" No, we cannot do that, and what's more...Most members do not CARE enough to strive for improvement (on PnQ). The "majority" of members are not as dedicated to this site as about 20 of us are.

We 20 or so are left to make changes, or not make changes.

Fine fine fine, i have a few keys that stick so sue me.

appears moderately just and brainy?

my major in college is this very subject. i have stuudied hard on politics and great statesmen, and founding fathers not only from the ununited states, but britain, germany, russia, japan, so on so forth

i think i have the know how to rival everyone on that list

man i hate these sticking keys

Rival...? This is not war.

Did i say rival? sorry if i did

I would like to be considered, I think I fit in nicely. I'm hot-headed and overly opinionated.
In all honestly the best idea I have seen here so far, was Bob's split everyone up idea. Seems a damn fine idea to me.

p.s in my eyes, the mods do their jobs v.well even if they are overpaid.

~Pete.

Haha, nothing to be sorry about, but Atticus...It is in your nature and spirit to fight, to bicker, to argue, to defend, to attack...You have the mind of a warrior, but not of a calm debater and spokesman. Perhaps if we were looking for a general or a fiery head figure of a huge civil rights movement...but to help come up with some basic, acceptable rules on a poetry website? Ehh...I can see another mod vs. member battle in the making.

Pete, I haven't seen you around much.

Shut up pete, just kidding buddy, but seriously, shut up

well in that case i'll just quit while i'm ahead because obviously i don't know what i'm talking about, i'll just quit the site now, oh and by the way i'm not being sarcastic

if i have no place here, if i am not useful then so be it.

You see? Reckless and emotional. You are going to quit the site because I said something about YOU that you obviously disagree with? Case closed.

Unless by not being sarcastic, you are being sarcastic? You lost me.

Take care, Atticus, try to chill out. I'm leaving to scavenge...Jane hungers.

Ciao!