The New Rules..

Hey Mods,

I'm just wondering how you are all getting along with the re-editing of the new website rules and guidelines since the member comments on the first edition.

A wee update would be ace, even better would be a rough date for when we can expect them to be born you know.

Cheers, Kevin.

The forum rules are up, locked and stickied, on every forum. The original Rule #12 was removed, and Rule #1 is slightly more confusing by saying "certain words" instead of saying the "c word". Besides that, they seem to be the same.

Rule #3 has already been broken in the Remembrance Day thread. I think that the inclusion of poetry in this thread is fine, and this option should always be available. So I ask once again that this rule be removed...it looks a bit hypocritical at the mo.

Also, I was expecting some more discussion before the rules were made formal. And are the other gargantuan rules going to be posted somewhere?

Ah cool, I didn't know they were up yet, ace.

What of the thread in the Feedback forum for member comments about Moderators, both praise and complaints/queries?

But what about those who do not have a sense as common as others...like me for example? Will there be extra special loopholes?

No offense, but poets tend to suck at creating a set of rules, because they see everything grey.

Can we get a lawyer in here?

Vikki, there is no use saying the rules suck now, not after everyone had a decent chance to contribute.

And if you are going to say a certain rule sucks, at least have the good grace to suggest how to improve it....otherwise you are just being a wronger...and you know what happens to wrongers around here eh?

yes you do...you secret person you.

Ps, i went over the new rules that have just been posted and compared them with the old set, the Mod created set that was posted a while ago. From my quick read over there hasn't been any significant change to any of the rules from all the member suggestions...not one, at least that I can see.

I find that rather dissapointing given the high quality of the ideas suggested as feedback. I hope that the forthcoming penalty rules are more balanced in terms of contributers.

Also, because i feel there are still flaws in the new rules, even after suggestions were made for improvement there may be some further discussion, perhaps a rule at a time regarding these matters...

Vikki,

There are some members and mods both that are putting their best foot forward in an effort to make this site better for all.

The rules may not be perfect and we are still working on them. Before you go ranting about and saying how aweful certain things and people are then at least have the common descency to enlighten us on who you are.

Also instead of just complaining try offering some solutions in a reasonable manner.

As I stated, there are some, more than others, that have actually put alot of time and energy into this and that are doing their best to make the rules fair for everyone involved.

I will say this much...

Bob, thank you for working so hard to come up with a new set of rules and guidelines that we can build on. The time and energy that you have put in is much appreciated.

~~Sher

Wow, just wow.

Ya'll need to reread my post, I never said any rules, nor anyone sucked.

I just said that poets don't tend to be all that great at making rules. I said this because Bob said there were special circumstances for certain rules. And to me it seems like there are way too many loopholes. It seems like you can get suspended and come back like magic. Just my observation. Which defeat the purpose of having rules in the first place, if you ask me.

Now I haven't read any of the rules, but I was just being pessimistic.

As for making suggestions, my specialty is complaining, and I know my suggestions would never be considered (I mean never).

Who am I? Well look at my profile if you're interested. I've even admitted to people that I've had another account. But it's not like I used that account a lot anyways, no one even knew who I was then, but really I'm the same person.

My god.

Kevin, what exactly does happen to wrongers? Do they get penalty points, maybe? Well no one has informed about getting any...I guess I'm too good.

I have read your profile, but it does not say much. It gives no inkling as to who you truly are.

What was your previouse screen name? Why not enlighten us. Why thy mystery?

No matter what aspect you take in life, no matter the site, situation, or surroundings, there is always going to be special circumstances from time to time.

It is a part of life. My son is mentally handicapped and has "special circumstances"; however, this does not give him the right to participate in a negative manner.

Poets may not be the best "rule makers" but I will take a poet over a politician any day!

~~Sher

I did not mean special circumstances in that way. Some people create special circumstances to convenient themselves.

There are too many loopholes. It seems like ever rule will be arbitrary. Practically everything and anything can be appealed.

But honestly it is difficult to solve that problem, and I do understand that you'll are doing the best you can. But that does not mean members can't question the best you can do, to make it even better. Right?

I'm not trying to be mysterious. It's just no one has asked me anything directly on the forum. I know as much as you, as you know about me.

I suppose once I get a few more poems up people will know me better, if they want to, but I'm still confused as to why people would want to know me.

I'm just a random 17 year old on the internet really.

I asked you directly in my previouse post. I point blank asked what your screen (account) name was.
Yet, you bypassed the direct question all together.

As for me, I have hid nothing. I am an open book and those that keep up can tell you almost everything about me.

Some like me while some despise me, but in the end I am me and I hide nothing. I hold no mystery about me.

~~Sher

Um okay it was tia, now it's vikki *tia* belle. now answer my question, why are you so curious?

was that really the whole point of your previous post, i didn't think it was.

does anything else i say matter?

seriously girly you're freaking me out.

p.s. i do reply to many other posts that reveal a lot about me, but i'm not going to tell you my address or anything, my god.

this is the internet

what's in a name?

I just like to keep up. Actually, alot of what you and the other members say does matter, to me anyways.

If I am freaking you then so be, but that is not my intention.

Ahh... Poor little me don't get to know your address or phone number... darn the luck lol...

Some ssy that there is a lot in a name; even the name you are given at birth is suppose to have some sort of meaning, bet eh what do I know. I am not into the astrology sort of things... just merely life.

My prev. post was actually more towards the fact that if you disagree with a rule or think that it is unfair then approach it respectfully and discuss why you think it is unfair without being judgemental or disrespectful to others.

Many think that I am unfair. I would not be surprised if you thought that as well, but I will say that I do my best and try to be fair to everyone.

Just because someone is a mod does not mean that they are all holy or that they do not make mistakes. It also does not mean that we just do things are way and that's it.

Anywho's that is getting off topic....

Thanks for answering my question. And seriously if there is something about the rules that you think sounds unfair then feel free to send me a PM and we will see what can be worked out; either that or post openly, but be nice about it.

~~Sher

Lol, yeah I can get a bit too curious at times too. Seriously I would be the first person to open up Pandora's box.

Ya, I suppose names do matter, but when you're on the internet it tends to matter less, because there is not a face to put to the name, so it's hard to track the origin, unless you're on myspace or facebook.

Also, trust me if I thought something was unfair everyone would know, but I can't guarantee that I'll be nice about it. I really don't think you're unfair, you just follow your heart.

Anywho, I've been procrastinating on my English ISU all afternoon, I better get to it, it's worth 25% of my final mark. AHHH.

Britt:

I will tell you why I for one complain against this modded regime...It is because you are hypocritical in your actions, and you side against one another, even if one of you made a wrong action.

We know you moderators are members too, but it seems that you placed yourself in a pedestal, as though higher than us, and not actually seeing what people are complaining about.

Open your eyes, and rather than complain against the complaint made by many members, why not see why so many people gripe against you....

Common sense is what you people preach and stand by, so it is only fair that you actually use that common sense, and see why so many people are against your actions...

And trust me, Britt, you was a member too, and this is an internet site, people come here to have the freedom to speak their mind, rather than stifled of it. Have the decency to look at the problem rather than dismiss it.

And please don't ask me what the problem may be, seeing as you are a fan of asking too many questions. See it for yourself

K!

If you guys are feeling that the pressure of sorting out the rules so that everyone finds them fair and balanced is too much work, then perhaps you should delegate responsibilities and take some pressure off yourselves.

You all agreed to redo the rules and guidelines along with the regular members, it would be a shame to lose heart and back off now just because things aren't being accepted as perfect after a 2nd draft.

You have many very smart mature members who could help if you asked them.

But you are right, people shouldn't be hassling you...I will try to be more relaxed and supportive for one.

When you're saying this, are you speaking to me directly? If so, what have I done thats so hypocritical of me?"

Lol...Did I mention that you do it, surprisingly when you take each sentence from my words, you don't read it, you just use it to write it for your own avail. I stated before that the mods stick together, yet as always you always assume that its always about you...Nice!

Why did we all work on new rules/guidelines? By dismissing the problems? Oh thats right. I'm not asking you what the problem is, because quite frankly you only add pessism, sarcasm and negativity to this site..But to each his own. You do it in a way that keeps you on this site suprisingly. When you have something constructive to add, perhaps I can take you a little more seriously. But as of right now, you only come in here to say "This is whats wrong. You all don't do your jobs, you dismiss the problem". Why not make a suggestion on fixing it?"

Oh how tasty, you just made an opinion, in such a way it may be mistaken for its derogatory connatations. But ofcourse its not...I'll put up my hands and say that I am a pessimist and I bring negativitity to this site, I love debating and playing, I love to always contradict another person's posts. And do you want to know why, because I want to show the person the other side of the spectrum, that there is different ways at looking at one thing, and that there is arguments coming from a spectrum, many fear to tread.

I guess I am "surprisingly" still on this site, because I do it soo well...But I digress...

As for my suggestion, if it will ever be heard, I feel that there should be three representatives of the members who will present their own interpretation of what the rules and guidelines should be...I was not involved with the whole rules and guidelines posts because it was utter chaos in the way ideas were just flayed around, and misrepresented, just because I did not involve myself, doesn't mean I have not read it.

I'm off to be sarcastic, pessimistic and negative....Away!!

There is a huge focus right now on the rules, both new and old. As Mods you have the tricky task of enforcing the rules. No wonder then that any disputed decisions are being made examples of right now, it's part of the process and should show clearly why progress needs to be made.

Also, and this may be obvious but I haven't seen anyone else say it. You are always going to get more bad feedback than good, because when people are happy, or at the least content they don't say anything negative to Mods. What other reason does a member have to contact a Mod except when something is wrong?

So really keeping this in mind, it's rather strange for a Mod to complain about all the complaints you have to deal with, when if you think about it, thats the heart of your job, the most important and difficult part aside from passing on information. You deal with the crap and you all volunteered for the role.

Noir, you have finally laid your character open for us to see. I always knew you were devils advocate, and it's an important role, if you can do it politely, which you can't. BUt on this one I think Britt is right, you yourself said you didn't contribute anything positive or inspiring to the new rules and so really you don't have a strong base to now critisize their quality. You are a smart guy I think and we could have used your insights when it might have counted for something....now you are just messing with everyone, which I understand, but it's just slowly things down.

I am a hypocrite to say this of course I'm sure you'll say. The difference is I made the effort when it counted and I'm still making it, pushing things forward with the Mods, even as I challenge them.

You are just picking at words and stirring the crap pot.

Help us out here with your rather incisive grey matter.

We all know writing up the entire new set of rules is not going to happen in a flash, but to focus on on issue, and this is not me hassling you guys.

The idea of consistent warning before any kind of Moderation, except in exceptionally extreme cases is an idea that has been kicking about for months now, it's nothing new and most Mods have agreed, including yourself, in fact I think you were the first publically, to make it standard practice.

You as Mods don't need a new set of rules ratified by everyone to keep the ideal up....but lets be honest it isn't happening and so when someone wants to challenge a Mod who hasn't followed the suggested rule, the only course is to reference the rules as evidence of what should happen, and because these rules are being updated you are going to get people calling you all on the new rules.....what else do we have to fall back on to plead our case!!!

This is not meant as an attack, though I won't be surprised if Bob takes it as one from me...I'm just trying to make you all understand, from a member point of view what is going on here.

Nicko, you are off my christmas card list man.....out the team...YER OUT!

: ).....

The fact this is a cool website worth improving and refining is a given, thats why we are all here pushing back and forwards. I totally get where Nicko is coming from....these debates are taking up alot of the energy that used to go into joking around and debating....well other things like religion and everyones's top 3 everything.

I'd like to see a happyish medium where we can still discuss things like rules and dare I say it, member and Moderator attitudes and actions and not have everyone raise arms.

I say this knowing that I, like Nicko have been sometimes at the center of whirling things up and challenging anything that moved. I always had worthy goals but my execution was perhaps not as tactful as could be.

If we had the stickied thread for Moderator queries, that would be a start, that way other debates wouldn't get clouded up with argument...

So any word on the old Moderator questions thread?

No....no word or not sure yet?....I know you Mods are oot and aboot as we say in Scotland...

Let us know my dears...

Well I just stopped in to see what condition your condition was in.

Ugh, that sucked.

I guess I'll just add another 6 pages to the backlog I have for this new thread....ace.

: )

You people have a hell of a lot of energy to be keeping this up. I'm going to sleep.

I'm not trying to be rude, but how hard can it be to create a thread where members can voice their concerns and questions regarding the rules and Moderator enforcements of them?

The rules of the website would still apply to any posts made there, so respect and all that....whats the hold up cowboys and girls?

Ah, I thought that was just a thread to discuss the new rules, and it died away when the Mods went off to write them.

It's the same thing though, except it could perhaps be stickied to the top of the feedback forum.

I'd advise a minimal introduction to what it's for, because the last one...the intro for the "Got a problem" threads were a bit condescending, even the title was off you know...too much attitude kicking things off.

Just call it MODERATOR/RULES QUERIES..

And say something like "this is a stickied thread only for people to ask questions about the website rules and Moderator actions and decisions. Everyone involved must try their best to be respectful and if you are not contributing to the discussion in some way please do not post unrelated messages."

Hows that...

Nope, it was agreed that a tread would be stickied where people could ask questions about decisions Mods had made and ask about their practices etc.

It's been well over two weeks since it was ok'd....any word? Is someone working on it?

..yawn.

I can't recall who suggested it, I'm sure it was a Mod. The general idea was to channel Mod complaints and queries into one thread, which would hopefully keep all other threads free of such questions....you guys would be able to refer anyone who asked in an unrelated thread to the new one..and only posts that were on topic would be kept.

Does it really matter who suggested it, or that my wording wasn't perfectly representative of how solid the idea is?

A yay or nay to my asking about it for the 4th time would still be nice, and kinda suggests the need for the thread in the first place as direct questions to the Mods can get lost or forgotten about in huge debates.

And ask Janis about something? Ha, you are a funny guy Bob, way to throw me an invisible bone. How amusing of you.

I thought Ann was the big cheese? NO!...NO.....I love it when you capitalize to me Bobby.

Strange but I remember quite alot of support for the idea when it was suggested, and not by me. So, without a thread like this one you are all happy to have random questions asked in random threads then regarding anything to do with Mods and rules?

I really thought you would all prefer to have such questions focussed into one thread, can you tell me why you all don't like this idea?

Maybe you guys are right about that, it would be chaos I guess.

Still, what do you think about the cases where a Moderator is publically out of line and a member tells them so in a public response.

Do you think that is fair and appropriate, after all, that is what Mods do in the first instance, give a verbal warning to the person that they didn't find their wording respectful. Members should be able to do the same I think.

I'm not talking about rants regarding penalty points etc..

The rules needs to be challenged, and as such, we need to state it. If let's say I get a penalty, and then I report it. And I try to pm a mod, but he/she does not answer. Do you think it's fair to post a thread publicly stating that you want to know why you were given a penalty, when trying to pm lead to no avail.

I may be a heckler, but so far, I haven't seen one suggestion taken to heart...

I may be wrong, but I believe it's true.

"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power - he's free again [A. Solzhenitsyn]."

I was using a hypothetical...Bob...As for the quote. I believe that it is refrenced to what people are viewing from the mods not as a collective but individual.

However, I feel that I have no personal qualms on the mods, but I am just advocating the different sides to the story,

rather than tell me that I should be previlaged of having this site freed just for lil ol me. Actually read my post and interpret it from a different point of view.

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my posts but enlighten them on the different alternatives.

I think the issue Bob, is not that we are ungrateful for this amazingly well laid out free site, but that Janis has almost nothing to do with it anymore, save, as far as I'm aware, a quick stop in 2 or 3 times a year to update and apologize.

This means you Mods are left as stewards in his place, and unless he has given you all some instructions that we have not be privy to, then you are all free to run this site in whatever way you see fit, programming allowing of course.

Do you really think Janis cares all that much which rules you enforce and how you go about them? I think he trusts you all to make up your own minds, and thankfully the members are now involved in that process of updating etc.

So I don't know why people keep saying things like;

"You know there is no point in discussing this because if Janis wanted the website like that he would have made it like that...so just accept the way things are"

etc etc etc. Janis is not here enough to know anything about what this websites users and Mods need.

It's left to us, and only us.

OOoh...how dramatic....

So whats the status on the updated version of the penalty rules? Anyone know?

If you check the new rules sticky, at the very bottom Bob says;

"The monitoring and a brief summary on the penalties for above said infractions shall be forth coming."

That you don't know anything about this is a bit strange because I was under the impression from what Bob has said that you were all discussing this in the Mod forum.

You know how you all reworded the general rules etc...the same has still to be done for the penalty system and exactly how the Mods apply it.

Hopefully with a few more ideas included by members that the first part had.

You just can't resist sticking the boot in Bob eh? Thats low man, really low, you use one of the reasons i was knocked back as a Mod to insult me in the public forums, after everything I did as a Mod you only see the negative and make a joke of it.

All i was doing was trying to find out what is happening with the new rules we all went to so much effort to create, I wasn't being rude or ranting, whats with the attitude in return?

Clearly there is little point in me posting anything to any Mod but Britt and Sherry.

I hope people are paying attention here.

"phew for a minute there...I lost myself...."

Now we all have an answer, a rough date when we can expect the updates, that it's...no need to get personal or defensive.

I'll Pm you Amanda.

LOL Kevin,

I did have the opportunity to read what you originally wrote, and though I would not have penalized you I will admit that I am glad to see that you have decided to edit it and take it up in a PM.

As far as the new set of rules, well, most of us have not had a chance to get together on them and though I hate to say this it will be a bit longer.

We both know why since we have talked privately regarding my active participation. However, I will say that as soon as we can all get together and hammer out the finals we will.

Please, my dear, be patient with us, and me, on this one.

~~Sher

Let's all take a deep breath and just breathe.

This is getting out of control and honestly all the bickering is not going to solve anything.

Breathe people Breathe.... wow....

How is that for getting cranky now....

What ploy Bob? You are off the charts man!

Britt and Sherry seem to be the only Mods who can reply to me without getting personal and overly defensive. They stick to the issues, and unlike you and Amanda, don't turn everything around so that it's my problem. They actually discuss ideas, even if they don't agree with them.

You seem unable to post a reply to me without throwing in a secret ploy or conspiracy theory, it's old and I'm surprised you haven't been asked by a fellow Mod to stop it, because for all your posturing and silly suggesting, you have never, not once given the slightest bit of evidence to your daft disrespectful claims.

You knew exactly what you were doing with your post Bob.

[Sherry, look at the pattern...I am defending myself here...not attacking....go tell Bob to calm down]